Talk:Martin JRM Mars

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Recient use?

Was there an article showing one dropping water last week (July/August 2024) in Colorado? 99.185.73.8 (talk) 02:29, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gross Weight?

The use of the “Gross Weight” label in the specifications is incorrect; the 90000lb value is more likely to be the Useful Load. TechViking (talk) 15:21, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MTOW vs Engine Type

There are discrepancies in the Maximum Takeoff Weight (MTOW) in the specifications for the JRM-3 Mars. Is the MTOW 165,000lb with the 2,500hp Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone engines, or just with the 3,000hp Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major.

In the specifications section, the sited source [4, Jane’s Fighting Aircraft of WWII p.244] provides the JRM-1 model specifications with MTOW of 145,000lb with Wright R-3350-18 2200hp engines, but does not include the JRM-2 or JRM-3 models.

In the Variants section, the reference [38] for the JRM-2 and a subsequent link from that page only mentions an increased MTOW but not by how much. However, the 165,000lb value is supported by the January 2009 issue of Aviation History : “The JRM-2’s increased power permitted a takeoff weight of 165,000 pounds and added more than 10,000 pounds to its useful load.” That same paragraph implies that the increased MTOW for the subsequent JRM-3 variant is linked to the R-4360 and, in a later paragraph, that a lower limit for the water bomber with the R-3350 applies: “The decision to switch to R-3350 engines, and accept the resultant reduction in payload, was likely due to long-term maintenance considerations.” The Aviation History article also states that, for the JRM-1, “the installation of 2,500-hp R-3350-24W engines, plus new four-bladed propellers, boosted takeoff weight to 148,500 pounds.” This differs from the 145,000lb listed from other sources. Unfortunately the web version of this article does not list its sources.

Finally, the other source [48] sited in the Specifications section for the JRM-3 is from Coulson Aviation for the water bomber conversion, but it lists 162,000lb MTOW with the 2,500hp R-3350-24WA. Note: the original source link is dead but the web archive PDF is still valid.

So, should the MTOW for the JRM-3 water bomber conversion with the R-3350-24WA engines be 145,000lb, 148,500lb, 162,000lb or 165,000lb?

Should there be a separate specifications section for “Civilian Use/Water Bomber”, and the original military JRM-3 specifications be edited to indicate the R-4360-4T engine with the 165,000lb MTOW? TechViking (talk) 17:34, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is a mess. I believe the Jane's variant described is the JRM-1, others have inserted JRM-3/fire bomber specs along the way (this occurs in many other aircraft articles). The specs should only relate to the variant in parentheses in the section header and, preferably, all come from one cited source. The convention is for only one set of specs per aircraft article per project guidelines. The water bomber specs have been included in its section, they have also been duplicated there. The specs PDF from Coulson Aviation is not complete and at Featured Article level they would most likely be removed as would links to the company as they're advertising 'pilot experiences'.

We could enter all the specs from Jane's which would simplify the specs section and be correct at the same time, there might be a more comprehensive specs source from specialised publications about the Mars. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 07:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]