Talk:Elon Musk

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Can I write a message to Elon Musk here? (No.)

A1: No. The "Talk:Elon Musk" page is not for writing messages to Musk. It is only for discussing changes to the Wikipedia article about him. Writing a message to Musk here is pointless and disruptive, and such messages will be removed as an improper use of the page.

Q2: Can you update the article to call Musk a "business magnet"? (No.)

A2: No. Musk once suggested in an interview that his Wikipedia article be changed to describe him as a "business magnet" rather than a magnate. The tone of that interview was not very serious; he also claimed to be an alien.^[1] Wikipedia doesn't have to do what Musk says, and this request has been made and declined dozens of times already. New requests may be removed without a response so that other discussions are not disrupted.

Q3: Should Musk be identified as South African in the opening sentence?

A3: Musk is a US citizen (since 2002) born and raised in South Africa, and also acquired Canadian citizenship via his mother. Including these nationalities in the opening sentence in a balanced way would be complex, and the consensus is that they should instead be explained later in the lead.

Q4: Can you change "Tesla CEO" to "Tesla Technoking"?

A4: No, because he is still CEO according to company records and that is a common corporate title that readers will understand, unlike "Technoking". The goal of the article is to inform people, which would be hindered by raising a confusing technicality.

Q5: Should the mention of Errol Musk having an interest in an emerald mine be removed in view of Elon's denials?

A5: While Elon today vehemently disputes any history with an emerald mine, he formerly accepted and even confirmed it. Specifically, a 2014 report originally printed in the San Jose Mercury News (and cited in the article) stated that Errol Musk had "a stake in" a mine. Elon affirmed his father's mine involvement in an interview with Jim Clash, a career interviewer of public figures, that was published by Forbes and withdrawn without explanation a few months later. Elon biographer Ashlee Vance likewise confirmed Errol's mining interest, with Elon's objections but not denials, in a 2020 interview report with Elon. Errol has stated that he received hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of emeralds from his dealings.

Q6: Should "Bachelor of Arts in Physics" be "Bachelor of Science" instead?

A6: No. Although it may seem counterintuitive, "Bachelor of Arts in Physics" is the degree that the University of Pennsylvania (among other schools) awards.

Q7: Should the article acknowledge doubts about Musk's academic record?

A7: Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons requires that negative information about a person must be attributed to reliable published sources, and excludes both self-published sources (e.g. Twitter threads) and court trial records. The article states that sources disagree about when Musk obtained bachelor degrees, and that he did not attend Stanford for any significant amount of time. Any doubts beyond this require appropriate sources.

Q8: Why doesn't this article describe Musk as an engineer?

A8: Musk is chief engineer of SpaceX, a title that applies within the company and that the press regularly mentions. He is not a professional engineer, a distinction within engineering that carries certain legal privileges in the United States, nor has he completed an engineering training program, nor has he ever been hired as an engineer. The article therefore does not include any of these claims. It does note that, from time to time, Musk has made initial product proposals at his companies that his trained engineers then research and develop. He does hold IEEE Honorary Membership.

Q9: Why doesn't the article identify Musk as co-founder of PayPal?

A9: Because that could mislead readers that Musk was involved in the creation of the PayPal service and brand, when he was not. Instead, as the article states, he co-founded a company (X.com Corporation) that acquired the company that had developed PayPal (Confinity Inc.) and then renamed itself as PayPal, Inc.

Q10: Why does this page include criticism of Musk's actions and stances?

A10: Musk is criticized/praised a lot in many reliable sources, and as such we need to talk about these criticisms and praise. To quote from Wikipedia's policy on a neutral point of view, articles must represent "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic."

Q11: Why is this a "good article" when some people consider Musk a bad person?

A11: "Good article" on Wikipedia refers to the way the article is written, not what kind of person Musk is. Good articles have been found to satisfy Wikipedia editorial standards for accuracy, verifiability and balanced presentation.

Q12: Why doesn't this page call Musk African American?

A12: African Americans are an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the Black racial groups of Africa. Reliable sources do not use this term to describe Musk.

References

^ "Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk". The Joe Rogan Experience. September 6, 2018. Event occurs at 9:53. Retrieved October 2, 2020 – via YouTube.

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting.

Elon Musk is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Elon Musk has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 4, 2021	Good article nominee	Listed
July 24, 2021	Peer review	Not reviewed
August 23, 2022	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
November 1, 2022	Good article reassessment	Kept
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 15, 2021. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Elon Musk* lost $16.3 billion in a single day, the largest in the history of the* Bloomberg Billionaires Index?
Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article

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Elon Musk in popular culture was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 14 May 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Elon Musk. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Isobel Asher Hamilton (December 23, 2019). "Elon Musk fact-checked his own Wikipedia page and requested edits including the fact he does 'zero investing'". Business Insider. Retrieved December 23, 2019.
Don Reisinger (December 23, 2019). "Elon Musk Took Issue With His Wikipedia Page, So He Asked the Community to Fix It. They Did". Inc. Retrieved December 23, 2019.
Sissi Cao (December 23, 2019). "Elon Musk Says His Wikipedia Page Is 'Insanely' Inaccurate". Observer. Retrieved December 27, 2019.
"Wikipedia locks Elon Musk's page after he 'begs' Twitter users to 'trash him' on site". The Tribune (Chandigarh). August 17, 2020. Retrieved August 17, 2020.
Sanya Jain (August 17, 2020). "Elon Musk Is Begging - Yes, Begging - To Be Trashed On Wikipedia. True Story". NDTV. Retrieved August 17, 2020.
Stephen Harrison (May 3, 2022). "The Controversy Brewing on Elon Musk's Wikipedia Page". Slate. Retrieved May 3, 2022.
Dave Lee (October 26, 2023). "Now Elon Musk is attacking Wikipedia". Australian Financial Review. Retrieved October 31, 2023.
CT Jones (October 24, 2023). "Elon Musk Offers to Also Ruin Wikipedia". Rolling Stone. Retrieved November 5, 2023.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Elon Musk's submarine was copied or moved into Elon Musk with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Section sizes

Section size for Elon Musk (43 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	9,541	9,541
Early life and education	29	23,798
Childhood and family	13,794	13,794
Education	9,975	9,975
Business career	20	120,746
Zip2	2,995	2,995
X.com and PayPal	5,466	5,466
SpaceX	11,545	23,171
Starlink	11,626	11,626
Tesla	18,666	36,480
SEC and shareholder lawsuits regarding tweets	10,525	10,525
SolarCity and Tesla Energy	7,289	7,289
Neuralink	9,032	9,032
The Boring Company	5,160	5,160
Twitter / X	29,017	29,017
Leadership style	9,405	9,405
Other activities	21	44,122
Musk Foundation	8,353	8,353
Hyperloop	6,826	6,826
OpenAI and xAI	5,375	5,375
Tham Luang cave rescue and defamation case	9,846	9,846
2018 cannabis incident	2,134	2,134
Music	2,803	2,803
Private jet	6,556	6,556
Company towns	2,208	2,208
Wealth	1,214	1,214
Personal views and Twitter usage	7,063	101,364
Finance	9,362	9,362
Technology	5,845	5,845
Existential threats	14,317	14,317
Politics	37,009	37,009
Accusations of antisemitism	13,015	13,015
COVID-19	14,753	14,753
Personal life	6,879	46,074
Relationships and children	20,393	20,393
Legal matters after 2020	18,802	18,802
Public perception	16,003	16,003
Notes and references	25	80
Notes	26	26
Citations	29	29
Works cited	1,480	1,480
Further reading	922	922
External links	5,649	5,649
Total	370,993	370,993

This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the all-time Top 100 list. It has had 108 million views since December 2007.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 57 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 August 2024

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In the Politics subheading of the Other Activities section, should [this story] about Musk forming America PAC and how it is potentially farming swing state voter data be included in the paragraph about his support of Trump's campaign? Coalah (talk) 04:44, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The story is covered in the WP article about America PAC so I think it warrants inclusion here, as well. Coalah (talk) 04:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added that Musk said he "created" America PAC. QRep2020 (talk) 22:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2024

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He is of Canadian and maybe Pennsylvania Dutch descent, if the Pennsylvania Dutch were the ones who settled in South Africa. Otherwise he is of Canadian and South African descent. He was able to get a Canadian citizenship via his mother. He couldn't have done that if she was British. Please do not insult Canada by implying that we are British, we are not. We may have started from British settlers but so did America. Would you call someone of American descent British, too? Canada has been an independent country for more almost 160 years, please remember from now on that we are a separate country from England and the UK. I really like the UK, but to call us British is just as bad as calling us American, or calling Austrians, German. Theshowmecanuck (talk) 00:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 01:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Main Image

Currently, the main image in the infobox is an image from 2023. However, a more recent image taken by me of Musk at a conference in Montana last March may be better as it is more recent. I would like to know what you all think Wcamp9 (talk) 03:29, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

looks like he got manbewbs in that pic 122.54.207.116 (talk) 00:15, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At this point, we have cycled through several images in the past month. I recommend we stick with the current selection and leave it be for now. Towards that, I will add a comment to the article's source code asking that future image changes be first discussed here. QRep2020 (talk) QRep2020 (talk) 02:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Wcamp9 To be frank, it’s a bad photo. It makes him look sad. Alexysun (talk) 10:12, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current image is low-quality. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 00:09, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The images that are getting replaced in infobox are all of low-quality/low-resolution. I have reinstated the last stable, high-quality/high-resolution image of Musk to the infobox. Svampesky (talk) 03:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A sad sad photo

Y’all really gave him a sad sad main photo. I object to this change. Alexysun (talk) 10:11, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 August 2024

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Elon musk got rich from selling nudesCite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). 73.129.26.236 (talk) 05:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC) Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 05:22, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 September 2024

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(EDUCATION) where he earned two degrees: a Bachelor of Arts in economics, and a Bachelor of Science in physics from the university's Wharton School. (Interchange the words physics and economics words) Shadabqurashi (talk) 05:54, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Bunnypranav (talk) 08:28, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Profile image

The profile image keeps getting changed. It is probably the least important element from an encyclopedic standpoint and yet gets so much editor attention as of late. Can we please decide on a semi-permanent image? 22:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC) QRep2020

@QRep2020 I put the image back to the most recent 2023 image rather than keep the current image where he looks unkempt. From WP:BLPIMAGE "mages of living persons should not be used out of context to present a person in a false or disparaging light. This is particularly important for police booking photographs (mugshots), or situations where the subject did not expect to be photographed." Several of the images people have used were from different angles or were in crowd situations where he wasn't expecting a photograph. The one I now put back is from an official photo when he was expected to be photographed. Ergzay (talk) 23:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Wcamp9 I suggest discussing before changing the image. Pinging you as you've changed the image several times. Ergzay (talk) 23:51, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This [[1]] seems to be a crisper image. Slatersteven (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Infobox image

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Which of the images below should appear on the infobox? elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following are images that have been used in the last two years. Options D and G are images that have not been used in the infobox and have been added to elicit discussion. The infobox image should not be changed during the duration of this RfC.

(Option A; 2018)
(Option B; 2022)
(Option C; 2022)
(Option D; 2023)
(Option E; 2023)
(Option F; 2024)
(Option G; 2021)

elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ElijahPepe FYI, Option D was in fact just added to the page. I was the one who reverted it. Ergzay (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Option C or Option A — Recency is not an absolute requirement for infobox images. Option E has an uncomfortable angle and Option F is too low-quality to be used. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The angle in Option E is a standard angle for taking photos. You rotate your body and then look at the camera. If you look at advice for full body photos, they generally advise rotating 45 degrees to the camera. Ergzay (talk) 18:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I believe Option A should be used. Option C looks sort of odd, and E, F are too low quality. Option A is widely used and is a well-known image of Musk. It has the best lighting too. But maybe we could use a bigger, less cropped version of the photo Wcamp9 (talk) 16:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC) File:Elon Musk Royal Society crop.jpg[reply]
Option A is my preference. I was going to switch to that when I edited the article, but I thought it might be challenged. Svampesky (talk) 16:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not option B C or D or F , also unsure about G. Either they are poor quality, or are at angles. Slatersteven (talk) 16:45, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option A or Option B - Both have the best lighting and expressions. C has bad lighting, D depicts him sweating and with an unprofessional facial expression, E could be higher resolution, F is too low resolution, and G is especially unprofessional. That said, please use this higher resolution version of option A instead if that's the one you're going to use. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 16:52, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option B has pretty bad lighting as the camera was white balancing for the blue background making him look green. Also his facial expressions look off. Ergzay (talk) 18:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Four of these are basically the same picture, any of these works as a top photo although in general I would lean towards one of the ones where he is in generic business dress rather than branded stuff because this page covers the whole breadth of the subject's experience and accomplishments, those seem like better pictures for SpaceX or Tesla Inc. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And even then, neither of the two are professional images and Option F is low quality. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 17:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option E — Option A is too old, 6 years old at this point. Option F and Option D make him look bad, additionally Option D has likely copyrighted trademark logos in it. Option B, C, D and F all have him looking away from the camera making them poor options. That remains Option E and Option G as the valid options. Of the two Option G has unkempt hair so I'll go with Option E. Edit: Option F and Option G are both completely out as they are low quality. I forgot to check by clicking on them and they're both full of camera sensor noise so neither is any good. Ergzay (talk) 18:00, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't the copyrighted logos fall under de minimis? They're not the focal point of the photo; Elon Musk is. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 18:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but we're arguing degrees here. An image without copyrighted logos (holding everything else equal) is better than one with copyrighted logos. Ergzay (talk) 18:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree and I wasn't saying the image should be used. The image is very unflattering and you can even see some sweat on his face. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 18:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's also important to note that a choice of Option A will prompt a lot of editors to try and replace it with newer images given that it's so old. 2018 was two years before covid happened, as a benchmark in people's minds. Ergzay (talk) 18:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

@Slatersteven, Ergzay, QRep2020, Svampesky, Alexysun, and Wcamp9: Notifying relevant editors. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leodan Silva

Hola Elon Mouk soy un fan de usted x sus proyectos y humildad y solidaridad con las demás personas lo sigo en sus redes sociales facebook, Telegram es un fraude y estafadores usan su imagen para estafar yo soy una víctima de ellos he tratado de comunicarme con usted x todos los medios para que otra persona no sea víctima de estafa si este mensaje lo recibe comuniquese con migo por favor soy de Venezuela mi clave 70 la suya 71 x si se puede comunicar conmigo 2803:C000:E:BB5:7F6C:D100:2357:17BE (talk) 19:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk". The Joe Rogan Experience. September 6, 2018. Event occurs at 9:53. Retrieved October 2, 2020 – via YouTube.

[1]