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Talk:Taumatawhakatangi­hangakoauauotamatea­turipukakapikimaunga­horonukupokaiwhen­uakitanatahu

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Requested move 24 February 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to not move. The noes have it. (closed by non-admin page mover) OhKayeSierra (talk) 14:42, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu → Taumata (hill) – This title is too long. It fills up the address bar and may cause formatting problems on mobile and desktop. Aasim 23:13, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Wikipedia:Article titles tells us how articles are to be named. It is strongly guided by the concept that we call common name and the existing article title represents the common name. There isn't anything on that page about the kind of technical difficulties the proposer is talking about. The case for a page move has not been made. Schwede66 23:41, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Even then, per WP:CONCISE, titles should be the shortest title to search the subject. So that village in Wales has an article title of Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, not Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. So... the title may need to be shortened to Taumata (hill), but for a different reason mentioned in the title policy.:) Aasim 02:06, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hello Dmehus, and may the winds, fine food, and rustic music of Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu be at your back and guide you into a weekend of editing and good cheer. As to your point, since the name is the real name of the location there is no need to ignore any rule. This is the same as a nomination to change the name of London to Lond, Toronto to Toro, or Rome to Roma (wait, that one should actually be tested). Enjoy. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:24, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Came back to say I checked Rome and was surprised 'Roma' wasn't boldfaced in the lede as an alternate name (although it's in the infobox title and listed as a Roman name), so boldfaced it and removed its unneeded italics in the infobox title, and will keep watch. Thanks for the inspiration. Who would have known that the flute music from the hill of Taumatawhakathang...well, you know, would reach the seven hills of Roma on Wikipedia. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
On a side note, at least the page Taumata (hill) was redirected. Hopefully it makes it easier to find and not painstakingly long to type in :) Aasim 16:45, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 July 2024[edit]

Taumatawhakatangi­hangakoauauotamatea­turipukakapikimaunga­horonukupokaiwhen­uakitanatahu → Taumata (hill) – Per WP:CONCISE. The shorter name also appears to be more common; even articles that discuss the long name appear to prefer the short one, including Stuff, news18, and NZ Herald BilledMammal (talk) 06:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I didn't even consider this would be controversial, let alone that prior proposals would be opposed. It's quite clear per our article naming WP:CRITERIA that this is far too lengthy of a title. Taumata hill is a perfectly natural alternative that is used in multiple reliable sources and described as being the named used by locals. Also WP:WIAN states 'A name can be considered as widely accepted if a neutral and reliable source states: "X is the name most often used for this entity"' Stuff states 'its everyday name is Taumata Hill.'[1]. That's a reliable source quite clearly stating the name is widely used amongst locals. Traumnovelle (talk) 06:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer your proposed natural disambiguation of Taumata Hill over the parenthetical disambiguation I proposed; looking at the sources again, it also appears to be preferred by them too. BilledMammal (talk) 07:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The long name establishes its notability. Alexeyevitch(talk) 22:28, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: LilianaUwU Please move the article back to the original name of Taumatawhakatangi­hangakoauauotamatea­turipukakapikimaunga­horonukupokaiwhen­uakitanatahu until consensus is reached. There had already been two requested moves and consensus was not to move. ―Panamitsu (talk) 07:16, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Panamitsu, I'm aware of this. I'm trying to see how to copy the old title to actually properly move it back. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 07:17, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See this. It wasn't intentional, and they have been trying to get it back to that title, although there are technical issues because of its length. BilledMammal (talk) 07:18, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did I do it? LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 07:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, yours still had the soft hyphen character. I think I've managed to fix it now. BilledMammal (talk) 07:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the original did have the soft hyphen character to an extent, hence why it was at AN for being blacklisted. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 07:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, my mistake - I think you're right; they're in the link in my RM, but not the previous RM. I think Canley accidentally introduced them in this edit. However, should it have them? BilledMammal (talk) 07:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean... on my end (with Vector 2010), the title trails off the screen, pretty much. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 07:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And moved back, sorry about that. BilledMammal (talk) 07:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for this mess and waste of time. Although it somewhat highlights the issues with the lengthy name. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:55, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:CONCISE and other arguments above. Left guide (talk) 07:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The hill's unusually long name (arguably the longest in the world) is the specific reason why it is notable. PatricKiwi (talk) 07:32, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose, per PatricKiwi and it's not the common name. Alexeyevitch(talk) 07:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. This has been discussed repeatedly, and basically nothing has changed AFAIK. As I said before, the notability of the place seems to stem largely from its lengthy name. The Guinness Book of World Records did not celebrate the place as "Taumata". The Mountain Dew jingle wasn't about "Taumata", and neither were any of the other pop culture references. It is not special in The New Zealand Geographic Placenames Database for being called "Taumata". Most reliable sources that talk about the place seem likely to feature its longer name. Without the name, it's just a non-notable hill. The soft hyphens are helpful for display purposes. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:45, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support: Llanfairpwllgwyngyll is also notable for its extremely long name and yet WP uses a shorter, but more frequently used variant as the title. The cases seem analogous. BilledMammal and Traumnovelle cite a range of sources for Taumata as the common name. I'd change my position if there was evidence that the long version was the common name. Furius (talk) 21:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(a. It obviously remains notable for the long name regardless of whether we use that as the article title; b. it should also be notable for its role in the life of Tamatea Urehaea, but sadly as the article stands it doesn't even include an account of the story: who was the lover? what was the outcome of Tamatea's flute playing?) Furius (talk) 21:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even without its lengthy name, Llanfairpwllgwyngyll ‎would have a Wikipedia article written about it. It has thousands of residents, a substantial list of notable people who lived there, and a long and rich history dating back several thousand years including a fort, a capture by Roman forces, a notable medieval church, and a Victorian-era church. For that town, the long name is just an interesting observation and tourism promotion, not its only or primary source of notability. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:15, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I note that the LINZ Gazetteer - which we usually use for guidance in how to name WP pages for NZ places - does not list this hill as "Taumata" at all; instead, it uses the long name. PatricKiwi (talk) 22:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Gazetteer actually uses neither the current name or the proposed one; they shorten it to Taumatawhakatangihangakōauauotamateapōkaiwhenuakitānatahu. Also, see WP:OFFICIALNAME. BilledMammal (talk) 00:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per @BarrelProof comments. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 01:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The sources given by BilledMammal indicate that Taumata is the common name. The article is about the hill, not the long form of the name of the hill; that the hill is well-known for having a long name does not mean that the long name should be the article's title - especially when there is another, more commonly used name. WP:CONCISE also clearly provides support for the shorter name. XabqEfdg (talk) 03:46, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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