Wikipedia:Deletion review
Deletion discussions |
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Deletion review (DRV) is for reviewing speedy deletions and outcomes of deletion discussions. This includes appeals to delete pages kept after a prior discussion.
If you are considering a request for a deletion review, please read the "Purpose" section below to make sure that is what you wish to do. Then, follow the instructions below.
Purpose
Deletion review may be used:
- if someone believes the closer of a deletion discussion interpreted the consensus incorrectly;
- if a speedy deletion was done outside of the criteria or is otherwise disputed;
- if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;
- if a page has been wrongly deleted with no way to tell what exactly was deleted; or
- if there were substantial procedural errors in the deletion discussion or speedy deletion.
Deletion review should not be used:
- because of a disagreement with the deletion discussion's outcome that does not involve the closer's judgment (a page may be renominated after a reasonable timeframe);
- (This point formerly required first consulting the deleting admin if possible. As per this discussion an editor is not required to consult the closer of a deletion discussion (or the deleting admin for a speedy deletion) before starting a deletion review. However doing so is good practice, and can often save time and effort for all concerned. Notifying the closer is required.)
- to point out other pages that have or have not been deleted (as each page is different and stands or falls on its own merits);
- to challenge an article's deletion via the proposed deletion process, or to have the history of a deleted page restored behind a new, improved version of the page, called a history-only undeletion (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these);
- to repeat arguments already made in the deletion discussion;
- to argue technicalities (such as a deletion discussion being closed ten minutes early);
- to request that previously deleted content be used on other pages (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these requests);
- to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias (such requests may be speedily closed);
- for uncontroversial undeletions, such as undeleting a very old article where substantial new sources have subsequently arisen. Use Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion instead. (If any editor objects to the undeletion, then it is considered controversial and this forum may be used.)
- to ask for permission to write a new version of a page which was deleted, unless it has been protected against creation. In general you don't need anyone's permission to recreate a deleted page, if your new version does not qualify for deletion then it will not be deleted.
Copyright violating, libelous, or otherwise prohibited content will not be restored.
Instructions
Before listing a review request, please:
- Consider attempting to discuss the matter with the closer as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the closer the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision.
- Check that it is not on the list of perennial requests. Repeated requests every time some new, tiny snippet appears on the web have a tendency to be counter-productive. It is almost always best to play the waiting game unless you can decisively overcome the issues identified at deletion.
Steps to list a new deletion review
If your request is completely non-controversial (e.g., restoring an article deleted with a PROD, restoring an image deleted for lack of adequate licensing information, asking that the history be emailed to you, etc), please use Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion instead. |
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{{subst:drv2 |page=File:Foo.png |xfd_page=Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 February 19#Foo.png |article=Foo |reason= }} ~~~~ |
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Inform the editor who closed the deletion discussion by adding the following on their user talk page:
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For nominations to overturn and delete a page previously kept, attach |
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Leave notice of the deletion review outside of and above the original deletion discussion:
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Commenting in a deletion review
Any editor may express their opinion about an article or file being considered for deletion review. In the deletion review discussion, please type one of the following opinions preceded by an asterisk (*) and surrounded by three apostrophes (''') on either side. If you have additional thoughts to share, you may type this after the opinion. Place four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your entry, which should be placed below the entries of any previous editors:
- Endorse the original closing decision; or
- Relist on the relevant deletion forum (usually Articles for deletion); or
- List, if the page was speedy deleted outside of the established criteria and you believe it needs a full discussion at the appropriate forum to decide if it should be deleted; or
- Overturn the original decision and optionally an (action) per the Guide to deletion. For a keep decision, the default action associated with overturning is delete and vice versa. If an editor desires some action other than the default, they should make this clear; or
- Allow recreation of the page if new information is presented and deemed sufficient to permit recreation.
Examples of opinions for an article that had been deleted:
- *'''Endorse''' The original closing decision looks like it was sound, no reason shown here to overturn it. ~~~~
- *'''Relist''' A new discussion at AfD should bring a more thorough discussion, given the new information shown here. ~~~~
- *'''Allow recreation''' The new information provided looks like it justifies recreation of the article from scratch if there is anyone willing to do the work. ~~~~
- *'''List''' Article was speedied without discussion, criteria given did not match the problem, full discussion at AfD looks warranted. ~~~~
- *'''Overturn and merge''' The article is a content fork, should have been merged into existing article on this topic rather than deleted. ~~~~
- *'''Overturn and userfy''' Needs more development in userspace before being published again, but the subject meets our notability criteria. ~~~~
- *'''Overturn''' Original deletion decision was not consistent with current policies. ~~~~
Remember that deletion review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question. It is an opportunity to correct errors in process (in the absence of significant new information), and thus the action specified should be the editor's feeling of the correct interpretation of the debate. Deletion review is facilitated by succinct discussions of policy; long or repeated arguments are not generally helpful. Rather, editors should set out the key policies supporting their preferred outcome.
The presentation of new information about the content should be prefaced by Relist, rather than Overturn and (action). This information can then be more fully evaluated in its proper deletion discussion forum. Allow recreation is an alternative in such cases.
Temporary undeletion
Admins participating in deletion reviews are routinely requested to restore deleted pages under review and replace the content with the {{TempUndelete}}
template, leaving the history for review by everyone. However, copyright violations and violations of the policy on biographies of living persons should not be restored.
Closing reviews
A nominated page should remain on deletion review for at least seven days, unless the nomination was a proposed deletion. After seven days, an administrator will determine whether a consensus exists. If that consensus is to undelete, the admin should follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Administrator instructions. If the consensus was to relist, the page should be relisted at the appropriate forum. If the consensus was that the deletion was endorsed, the discussion should be closed with the consensus documented.
If the administrator closes the deletion review as no consensus, the outcome should generally be the same as if the decision was endorsed. However:
- If the decision under appeal was a speedy deletion, the page(s) in question should be restored, as it indicates the deletion was not uncontroversial. The closer, or any editor, may then proceed to nominate the page at the appropriate deletion discussion forum, if they so choose.
- If the decision under appeal was an XfD close, the closer may, at their discretion, relist the page(s) at the relevant XfD.
Ideally all closes should be made by an administrator to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal is applied consistently and fairly but in cases where the outcome is patently obvious or where a discussion has not been closed in good time it is permissible for a non-admin (ideally a DRV regular) to close discussions. Non-consensus closes should be avoided by non-admins unless they are absolutely unavoidable and the closer is sufficiently experienced at DRV to make that call. (Hint: if you are not sure that you have enough DRV experience then you don't.)
Speedy closes
- Objections to a proposed deletion can be processed immediately as though they were a request at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion
- Where the closer of a deletion discussion realizes their close was wrong, and nobody has endorsed, the closer may speedily close as overturn. They should fully reverse their close, restoring any deleted pages if appropriate.
- Where the nominator of a DRV wishes to withdraw their nomination, and nobody else has recommended any outcome other than endorse, the nominator may speedily close as "endorse" (or ask someone else to do so on their behalf).
- Certain discussions may be closed without result if there is no prospect of success (e.g. disruptive or sockpuppet nominations, if the nominator is repeatedly nominating the same page, or the page is listed at WP:DEEPER). These will usually be marked as "administrative close".
I do not believe the consensus was correctly interpreted in closing this as "delete." Besides the nomination, there were two "delete" !votes and two "keep" !votes. One delete !vote addressed sources in the stub-length article but not sources that might be found in a WP:BEFORE search. The other !delete vote sought to rebut my !keep vote, which cited WP:NACADEMIC criterion 7(a) (rebutting the nomination, which claimed no passage on NACADEMIC) and offered links, by applying a criterion ("particularly substantive") that is not in the SNG, and which I rebutted without further response. A second !keep vote cited WP:NAUTHOR and offered sources to back it up, and this vote was unrebutted. The AfD was closed after just one week without relisting, but if it had to be closed, I think this would have been a "no consensus" close. However, when I asked the closer to elaborate on his rationale, I and the other "keep" !voter became convinced that the close was a supervote. The closer made a WP:NOEFFORT argument ("That two-sentence stub of an article? ... After 7 years, the stub remained just that.") and claimed that the delete !votes "did not refute the other arguments and did not address this key issue: What exactly is Jackson supposed to be notable for?. This is untrue; delete !votes received substantive rebuttal in the discussion and as I pointed out in my response to the closer, my !vote made clear that the sources supported the subject's notability in “his area of expertise, which is celebrity influence on politics.” (I sought to resolve this at the closer's talk page but he has not responded to my and Goldsztajn's most recent comments, even though he did view them since he archived the talk page after they were made, so I am bringing this to DR.) My request is either to relist or to overturn to N/C to allow the article to be improved. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:21, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - It would be helpful for non-admins to be able to see the
admission of self-creation
. Request temporary undeletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
The redirect was created by an erroneous page move that was quickly reverted. Although Super Mario Galaxy 2 is known by this name in Korean, Super Mario Galaxy 2 is not a Korean-made game, and this name is not mentioned in the article. Super Mario Wii: Galaxy Adventure was deleted for the same reason as this, and the RfD was not closed by an administrator. Mia Mahey (talk) 21:04, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
Arguments for Keep weren't very policy-based; I think it should have concluded as Delete. Jruderman (talk) 20:44, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Pings: Hello @Grayfell:, @Generalrelative:, @Biohistorian15: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jruderman (talk • contribs) 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Jruderman: Those attempts to ping will have had no effect, because you didn't include a signature when you posted them. I also suggest that selectively pinging three of the participants in a discussion in which seventeen people took part is questionable. JBW (talk) 22:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse no specific critiques of keep !votes are articulated, and none are immediately obvious to me. Obviously, people disagree about how to portray this appropriately, and whether we're doing more harm by having an article than not, but absent a key policy-based objection, this does not present a clear case for DRV to overturn the outcome. Jclemens (talk) 21:27, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse the close. There was clearly no consensus in the discussion, and the close was "no consensus". JBW (talk) 21:50, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse the close of No Consensus. Sometimes when there appears to be no consensus, the closer does not have an obligation to tease out a consensus by evaluating strength of arguments, and is allowed to conclude that there really was no consensus. I agree with the close, but I am not required to agree with the close in order to find it a valid close.
- The history of previous AFDs shows no consensus, and is further evidence that the closer was reasonable in concluding that sometimes no consensus really is no consensus. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:19, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- That was a really tough discussion, and given there were calls to draftify and the keep !voters even basically said it needs work, I probably would have tried to move it out of mainspace. That being said no consensus is reasonable and considered. SportingFlyer T·C 18:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - If we need to WP:TNT again, we can do it in another AfD, but nishidani gave good reasoning in the AfD that the past AfDs have generally all agreed in notability. this article, like related Race and Intelligence articles, remains notoriously difficult to write and find consensus on. I see no way we can avoid no consensus again unless we give others time to polish this article. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 03:42, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
See also, articles about races for similar cases has been successfully deleted or merged before amongst numerous others I can find.
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2009 Macau FBMW Pacific
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2002 Silverstone Superbike World Championship round
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 Jeddah F1 Academy round
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2021 Spielberg Formula Regional European Championship round
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2019 Le Castellet Formula Regional European Championship round
I nominated this as most races of feeder series for young drivers, with the exception of the Macau Grand Prix, are not notable enough for individual articles, thus failing WP:GNG, WP:SIGNIFICANCE and WP:EVENTCRIT. The irony of that nomination and the sucessful deletion of SWC articles is that the latter is a top tier series for production motorcycles. The nomination for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2019 Le Castellet Formula Regional European Championship round covered this rationale well. Rather than reword this as my own, I will copy and paste it here…
"This is a collection of articles that serve as race reports for the Formula Regional European Championship. For context, this is a junior motorsport competition at the Formula 3 level for young drivers in Europe. The series itself is notable and that is not what I am disputing. However, these articles are not. While the season may receive significant coverage, each event unambiguously does not. All of these completely fail basic content policies: the only coverage I can find is from Formula Scout, a specialty source which I do not believe can be used to prove notability given its obscurity and extremely limited scope. It is routine coverage and does not provide any greater analysis other than a recount of the basic going-ons of each round (i.e. the results). Other sources used are primary, typically results tables. In fact, the articles consist almost exclusively of results, with negligible prose. There is no prospect of expansion for these articles because such little coverage exists. Simply because the series is notable does not mean each individual race warrants its own article: notability is not inherited. Not every open-wheel series receives attention requiring F1-style coverage. Per WP:GNG, WP:NOSTATS, and WP:NSPORTSEVENT, these should all be deleted."
I will now add my own point - Unneeded WP:CFORK of respective seasons that is solely useful to the tiniest minorities of dedicated fans. WP:SIGCOV have always been mediocre outside of dedicated motorsport magazines. Sources is over-reliant on WP:PRIMARY. One of the source mentioned in the nomination, Formula Scout, is a hobbyist site, also dubious at best as mentioned above. Lastly, do poor spectator attendances at these races warrant a Wikipedia article?
I do not object to a redirect, but Wikipedia is not a repository of sports stats.
This received a keep verdict because number of keep votes mattered the most to Wikipedia rather than the notability issues of the article. Summaries are a duplication of round-by-round summaries found in seasonal articles.
What kind of message does this keep verdict send? It’s okay for an unsourced article or one with WP:PRIMARY to be given a keep verdict because of a number of keep votes.
If we have to go back to 2004 as one editor said, then I will. I focused this nomination on this year’s season to kill it off, then they will be next.
If we are to allow them to be kept, in future AfD nominations, this will be uses as an indicator for notability as I have done already. SpacedFarmer (talk) 20:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse (uninvolved). The consensus was correctly interpreted; there was no support for deletion beyond the nominator, and this is not AfD round 2. Furthermore, the appellant brought this to Deletion Review before contacting the closer, contrary to the recommended steps above. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:21, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Question What is the asserted policy-based problem with or error in the discussion? Jclemens (talk) 04:04, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse in the absence of any articulated discussion or consensus-assessment issues. DRV is not just because someone doesn't like the consensus, especially on editorial arguments like CFORK or notability. Jclemens (talk) 05:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Questions - 1. How many articles is the appellant asking to include in this Deletion Review? There appear to be 11 articles listed in the AFD. Are they all in the scope of this DRV? 2. What if any error does the appellant say was made by the closer? Robert McClenon (talk) 02:49, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Vivian Jenna Wilson (closed)
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
I must object that consensus was met on Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Vivian_Jenna_Wilson#Discussion. First the raw tallies. They were:
Grouping categories, we get to:
If we further merge categories down to just two:
A 45%:55% split is not consensus. Consensus is not simple majority. Of course, Wikipedia's consensus process is not simply about numbers, but argument. Individuals can vary on their judgement of an argument's strength, of course. But overall, factoring this in this does not change the picture. Removing "trivial" support / oppose votes without much argument, I get that "Keep" loses one trivial vote and "Redirect" loses 2 trivial. Wikipedia policies (in base voting arguments, I didn't check in subthreads) were mentioned 14 times by the keep side and 18 times by the oppose side. Contrarily, the keep side cited 22 external sources while the oppose side cited only one. To get further opinions on whether consensus was established, I fed the discussion to the most powerful free LLMs (after verifying that they know Wikipedia's policies well, which they do - unsurprising, given how Wikipedia is prominently used in their training datasets). Under the discussion, I asked each, "Under Wikipedia's policies, does it appear that consensus is established?".
I believe User:RL0919 has erred, and that the closure should be undone. Consensus has not been met. Starting a deletion review because the user archived the deletion discussion and it explicitly says not to comment on the deletion there, but to instead comment here. Rei (talk) 20:01, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
The specific intersection no longer fails WP:BEFORE for the WP:OCEGRS guideline mentioned in the original discussion, see potential sources below all from the first page or so of search results.
- Krishner, Yonah. 10 Jewish YouTube Channels for Teaching Judaic Studies, Jewish Education Project.
- Lakritz, Talia. 5 ‘JewTubers’ To Watch, Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
- Miller, Jason. Jews in the Digital Age: The Off-the-Derech YouTuber, Detroit Jewish News. Orchastrattor (talk) 16:07, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Was recreated and G4'd as Category:Jewish YouTubers, which I think would make more sense to undelete than the original. Orchastrattor (talk) 16:09, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- This also specifically came to my attention as a result of my work on Jacob Geller, an article which actually goes into some detail on the relationship between Jewish culture and the very medium of video essays, so I believe the 'specific context' of OCEGRS is met as well in addition to RS. Orchastrattor (talk) 16:21, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- For the record, the CFD considered both Category:Jewish YouTubers and Category:YouTubers of Jewish descent. I still think that this is a non-defining intersection under EGRS. It requires that the combination is "itself recognized as a defining topic that has already been established (in reliable sources showing substantial existing research specific to the topic), as academically or culturally significant in its own right. The mere fact that such people happen to exist is not a valid criterion for determining the legitimacy of a category."
- The evidence I see here is that Jewish Youtubers happen to exist. Mason (talk) 20:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- OCEGRS doesn't really define what it means by "research" but it does note that how the guideline treats sources should be modeled after GNG, in which case the fact that it was this easy to find multiple non-trivial mentions of the intersection (to the point where one source goes as far as to give them a cute nickname) should indicate a reasonable amount of 'cultural or academic significance'. Orchastrattor (talk) 17:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
- Restore non-defining intersection or non-encyclopedic cross-categorization means RS'es haven't commented on it. If RS'es have, it's defining enough. Jclemens (talk) 21:02, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Relist – seems reasonable to kick this back to CfD for these newly presented sources to be discussed. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:55, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
I closed this discussion as "no consensus" because my reading of the delete arguments was that they were mostly on the borderline, and with a late keep argument coming in it seemed the discussion had not clearly come to a consensus to delete the article. The nominator Neocorelight disagreed with the closure, so I am asking for second opinions here. I think Liz felt the same way as she relisted the discussion twice, during which time no further comments were added. I then decided to close it as no consensus because relisting an AfD more than twice is frowned upon. That said, maybe this was an overly conservative "no consensus" relisting by Liz and closure by myself. Happy to change the closure based on a second opinion. What do you think? Malinaccier (talk) 13:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
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The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
The category was deleted at CfD recently. It seems the users voting delete were under the belief that the category was meant for games released on the DVD format which includes thousands of games and is indeed "not a defining characteristic". But the category was actually for DVD games, interactive movie games that are playable on a DVD player. Only a fairly small number games could be included in the category (there were maybe less than 50 articles in the category when it was deleted). This category is similar to other video game platform categories like Category:Xbox 360 games, in this case the platform is a DVD player. Pinging Zxcvbnm (talk · contribs), Marcocapelle (talk · contribs), QuantumFoam66 (talk · contribs). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mika1h (talk • contribs) 16:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
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The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |