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Talk:List of VFL/AFL pre-season and night series premiers

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What's a night premier? RickK 00:24, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

A winner of the night premiership, a pre-season competition in the AFL. I've reworded the intro so that it's hopefully a little clearer now. Shane King 00:55, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

1 competition or many?

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Recently this article (and the numerous copies of it under other titles) has been editted drastically, with most of the changes about the grouping, classifying or titles of the various competitions over the years. My reasons for my latest reverting of BrianBeahr's edits is as follows.

  1. This is a list of premiers. It does not need to go into exact detail of name changes, qualifications, etc. That should all be in the "main" associated article Australian Football League pre-season competition. The lead paragraph should follow the opening sentence and Stand alone list lead and selection criteria guidelines, stating that This is a complete list of Xs, and it should have a link to the "main" article, which I did add, but it was removed.
  2. The phrase National Cup is not used by the AFL, the media or supporters in any manner in relation to these competitions, so it shouldn't be used here. Pre-season Cup, Pre-season competition, pre-season series are all OK, but never "National".
  3. The consolation series also seems like a good description of it, but the reference I've added doesn't call it that, just "night Premiership" and "The night series has been described as a 'loser's championship'", so consolation should only be used as a descriptor, not as the title.
  4. The use of VFL Night Series and the split between VFL and AFL gives undue weight to the name change and not enough weight to the change from a mid-year series to the pre-season series. The name change was purely cosmetic, the change in the timing was more significant. On the otherhand, the official AFL annual record books make no distinction/separation between the 'consolation' night series, the 70s/80s night series and the 90s/00s pre-season comp. All are grouped together.

Hope all of these edits make sense and that we can make this article better together, not just squabble over the minor details. The-Pope (talk) 23:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Double Premierships

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Mr 60.240.118.WHYDONTYOUREGISTER seems intent on making the Double Premiership section complicated and hard to read. After persisting with a two table design for a while, he's now moved to a double line design. So, maybe I'm unique in not thinking that it's difficult to read, so can other users please decide whether this is a clear and concise table:

Season Premier Runner Up Score Venue Attendance Premiership
1984 Essendon Sydney Swans 13.11 (89) - 5.8 (38) Waverley Park 30,824 Pre-Season
1984 Essendon Hawthorn 14.21 (105) - 12.9 (81) MCG 92,685 AFL Grand Final
1986 Hawthorn Carlton 9.12 (66) - 5.6 (36) Waverley Park 19,627 Pre-Season
1986 Hawthorn Carlton 16.14 (110) - 9.14 (68) MCG 101,861 AFL Grand Final
1988^ Hawthorn Geelong 10.10 (70) - 9.13 (67) Waverley Park 35,803 Pre-Season
1988 Hawthorn Melbourne 22.20 (152) - 6.20 (56) MCG 93,754 AFL Grand Final
1993 Essendon Richmond 14.18 (102) - 11.13 (79) Waverley Park 75,533 Pre-Season
1993 Essendon Carlton 20.13 (133) - 13.11 (89) MCG 96,862 AFL Grand Final
2000 Essendon Kangaroos 16.21 (117) - 11.10 (76) MCG 56,720 Pre-Season
2000 Essendon Melbourne 19.21 (135) - 11.9 (75) MCG 96,249 AFL Grand Final
2009 Geelong Collingwood 0.18.19 (127) - 1.6.6 (51) Etihad Stadium 37,277 Pre-Season
2009 Geelong St Kilda 12.8 (80) - 9.14 (68) MCG 99,251 AFL Grand Final

or is this preferable?

Year Double premier Pre-season runner up Pre-season grand final scores Premiership runner up Premiership grand final scores
1984 Essendon Sydney Swans 13.11 (89) - 5.8 (38) Hawthorn 14.21 (105) - 12.9 (81)
1986 Hawthorn Carlton 9.12 (66) - 5.6 (36) Carlton 16.14 (110) - 9.14 (68)
1988 Hawthorn Geelong 10.10 (70) - 9.13 (67) Melbourne 22.20 (152) - 6.20 (56))
1991 Hawthorn North Melbourne 14.19 (103) - 7.12 (54) West Coast 20.19 (139) - 13.8 (86)
1993 Essendon Richmond 14.18 (102) - 11.13 (79) Carlton 20.13 (133) - 13.11 (89)
2000 Essendon Kangaroos 16.21 (117) - 11.10 (76) Melbourne 19.21 (135) - 11.9 (75)
2009 Geelong Collingwood 0.18.19 (127) - 1.6.6 (51) St Kilda 12.8 (80) - 9.14 (68)

is clearer, especially when you consider that the full details are provide in the tables earlier in the article, or in the links provided in the table for the "season proper" Grand Final.The-Pope (talk) 12:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]